81: DTN Podcast | Jim Alstott Ep. 81 | Am I on the Wrong Mountain? | Matt Ludmer

What if you reach the top of your mountain and it turns out to be the wrong one? In 2000, Matt Ludmer and his partner were named the No. 1 producing team at DLJ. He walked up to collect the award, and his very next thought was, "Where do I go from here?" Earlier that year he had wandered into a matinee of a play called Wrong Mountain, and its question never left him. Matt grew up in Teaneck, New Jersey, the son of a man who sold staples and nails up and down the Turnpike. He talked his way into the University of Chicago by sitting outside the dean's office, talked his way into Morgan Stanley by walking into a recruiting lunch uninvited, and spent decades building wealth for other people while quietly studying meditation, Tibetan Buddhism and Judaism on the side. For years, none of those worlds knew about the others. At his 50th birthday, none of his best friends knew each other. We talk about the thirteen years between knowing and leaving, why a risk manager decided the risk of staying was worse, the day he wrote ARTICULATION on his daughter's wall and saw her light dim, a week alone in a Vermont cabin where he started laughing on day three, and what his father knew about contentment that took Matt forty years on Wall Street to learn. His new book, The Right Mountain, comes out October 20. And stay for the Playlist Round: Led Zeppelin, Queen, Al Green, a tenor aria, and the Knicks. KEY TOPICS Reaching the top and asking "where do I go from here?" · Living two lives: Wall Street and the meditation cushion · The four dimensions of true wealth · Intelligent risk and the decision to leave · Money as achievement, not fulfillment · Being spiritual in business · Parenting and the achiever mindset · A solo retreat and laughing at your own story · Must do, fun to do, and what your heart wants · What a father's contentment teaches SOUND BITES "Did it ever occur to you that you may be on the wrong mountain?" "I'm a wealth manager and I didn't feel wealthy." "My job is not managing money. My job is managing risk." "Money is achievement, but it's not fulfillment." "Wisdom has many, many lifetimes." CHAPTERS 00:00 Intro 01:06 Matt's thumbnail: Teaneck, a staples salesman's son, and the road to Wall Street 02:14 Tibetan teachers at 18, and camping outside the dean's office 03:35 Two lives: meditation in the dorm, Morgan Stanley by day 04:35 Unintentional Fridays and a play called Wrong Mountain 05:29 The lightning moment, and the No. 1 producer award 07:04 Uncle Marvin the headhunter, and where the nerve came from 08:36 A motivation box on the wall and reading Emerson 10:07 Walking uninvited into Morgan Stanley's recruiting lunch 11:58 The downside of the achiever mindset 12:28 His daughter Grace and the word ARTICULATION 14:48 Scottsdale, 2000: "Where do I go from here?" 15:37 Thirteen more years, and a wealth manager who didn't feel wealthy 16:15 Ken Wilber and a map for a fragmented life 18:10 A 50th birthday where none of his best friends knew each other 19:58 The four dimensions of true wealth 21:28 Fear, money, and a family to support 22:57 "My job is managing risk" 23:57 Losing his light, and the decision to leave 25:14 Stay with the question: advice for anyone at a crossroads 27:05 What he yearns for now, and the purposes of money 29:31 Money is achievement, not fulfillment 30:30 You don't have to renounce the world to be spiritual 31:58 Can you be spiritual and still sell?